The 8-Bit Guy opened an arcade + insane expectations of the Commander X16

[Calavera]

Now I may be wrong but I honestly don't see how a place like this can succeed long term in 2024. I can see people visiting it once or maybe twice to check it out but after that I don't really see much of a reason to return. There is a reason you don't see many arcades around anymore.

There was a retro arcade not too far from me I visited a few years back. I even posted about it

viewtopic.php?p=45452

That location seems to now be gone but they still have one location open but it is also a bar.

While it might sound like fun to go and play all those old games on real arcade hardware just like when you were a kid you'll find that the magic is gone. All those games can now be played better with emulation. Another thing is those arcade machines (especially the older ones) take a lot of work to keep them up and running. At the arcade I visited half the machines were broken in some way.

At the 8-Bit guys arcade he has a bunch of retro computers and consoles set up for people to play. While that might sound good on paper it probably won't be long until kids have those machines destroyed. In the video it looks like none of the consoles or computers are locked down in any way so you know it won't be long until the multi-carts, controllers and possibly even the entire systems get stolen. I also wonder about the legality of charging people to come in and play what are technically illegal multi-carts and roms.

Maybe I'm being too negative but I just don't see how this place can be successful in the long-term. It looks like they've put a ton of money into getting it up and running. So with all that money plus all the operating costs I honestly don't see this place even coming close to breaking even, let alone making a profit.

The 8-Bit guy seems to be stuck in the past with his business decisions. First he did the whole Commander X16 thing which was supposed to be a modern 8-bit computer for only $50. It ended up being quite different from what he originally talked about and is $350!!!! There are many other devices already released that can do what he wanted out of the X16 and for MUCH cheaper. At one point he talked about the X16 being used in some sort of gaming competition. I have no clue what he was talking about but worse he said with totally seriousness that he thinks the X16 could be successful in the educational market. He thinks that first off any school would have any interest in buying these and second that any kid would give two shits about learning ancient basic on that thing.

Here is the video where he talks about it being used in the educational market (6:20)


He seems totally out of touch with the modern world. He thinks because he had so much fun on his Commodore VIC-20 and C64 when he was growing up in the 80s that kids today will feel the same way. Even by the 90s people had moved on from those old machines. He thinks education will be a big market for the X16 because kids computers are crappy and don't allow them to write their own programs. For examples he then shows a bunch of ancient V-tech machines from the 90s. I could go on but just watch the part of the video I linked. It is amazing he really believes this.

The kind of kids who are interested in learning how to program have modern tools to do so. What would be the point of them learning ancient programming? It would be a waste. He is so out of touch and kind of delusional.

So what do you think? Am I just being a hater or does his business decisions seem to be way out of touch with the modern world? I will say the arcade has a much higher chance of succeeding than the X16 does, especially in the educational market. But that isn't saying much.

[Dr. Zoidberg]

I think both can be semi-successful, to an extent.

With the arcade, it really just depends where it is. If it's in an area where that kind of thing can do well, then it should do OK.

There is a decent sized niche for updated 8-bit/16-bit style computers. A few have come out, like the Spectrum Next, which sell out straight away on Kickstarter. But only 8000 of them have been made.

With the CX16, they released 1100 of them and they all sold. There's a new batch being made, but I don't know how many they are making. And that's the problem. How do you judge this a success or a failure? It's not easy to make these things en masse, so they will never be selling huge amounts of them, but they will probably still end up making a small profit by releasing a 1000 here and a 1000 there.





I like the idea of a beefed up 8-bit system with 16-bit level power but you really need to sell a large amount of them (100+k) to build up a community that will make a decent amount of original games for it.

And it is too expensive. US$199 for a complete system is about as much as things like this should cost.

He seems totally out of touch with the modern world. He thinks because he had so much fun on his Commodore VIC-20 and C64 when he was growing up in the 80s that kids today will feel the same way. Even by the 90s people had moved on from those old machines. He thinks education will be a big market for the X16 because kids computers are crappy and don't allow them to write their own programs. For examples he then shows a bunch of ancient V-tech machines from the 90s. I could go on but just watch the part of the video I linked. It is amazing he really believes this.

The kind of kids who are interested in learning how to program have modern tools to do so. What would be the point of them learning ancient programming? It would be a waste. He is so out of touch and kind of delusional.

That was one of the main reasons the Raspberry Pi was made, to make a cheap C64/ZX Spectrum style computer that kids could learn to program on. I think they had some success doing that in the UK but overall they are being sold for other things, and have been a big hit.

[melancholy]

Arcades can still be very successful. If you want an example, make a trip to Indianapolis to the Castleton Mall. There is an arcade in there that charges $15 and you can play anything as much as you want. Place has been there for nearly 10 years, and always had success.

Around where I live, there are several smaller arcades inside game stores within an hour drive of me. Hell, the city of Richmond actually pays for a portion of the operating costs for the arcade that’s in their downtown. It’s been going for 2-3 years now.

I think your issue is that you see arcades as a means of playing games, and not as an experience. Yeah, I could break out my racing wheel, spend some time setting up my emulator and play a few rounds of Daytona USA alone before getting bored after 10 minutes. But I would rather go to Indy with a bunch of buddies and race them in the 8 player Daytona USA they have in the mall down there. And then we can move on to MvC2, and then jump over to Time Crisis, and then eventually I’ll ditch them and spend the next half hour on the Sound Voltex machine. You know how much time it would take to set up an experience like that at home? With racing game, a fighting stick game, a light gun game, and a rhythm game? You’d spend more time in setting up than you would actually playing.

We go about once every month or two to an arcade around our area and it’s a blast.

[Calavera]

I think your issue is that you see arcades as a means of playing games, and not as an experience. Yeah, I could break out my racing wheel, spend some time setting up my emulator and play a few rounds of Daytona USA alone before getting bored after 10 minutes. But I would rather go to Indy with a bunch of buddies and race them in the 8 player Daytona USA they have in the mall down there. And then we can move on to MvC2, and then jump over to Time Crisis, and then eventually I’ll ditch them and spend the next half hour on the Sound Voltex machine. You know how much time it would take to set up an experience like that at home? With racing game, a fighting stick game, a light gun game, and a rhythm game? You’d spend more time in setting up than you would actually playing.

We go about once every month or two to an arcade around our area and it’s a blast.

I agree with you. Going to have experiences you can't easily emulate on your PC would be a reason to go, driving/lightgun/rhythm games like you mentioned and especially pinball. But take a look at the game list for this arcade.

https://timeriftarcade.com/games/

The large majority of them are ancient arcade games from the 80s. The only rhythm type game is Guitar Hero Arcade. They have a few lightgun games. And while their are some driving games they are again all ancient ones from the 80s and 90s. I would definitely stop by to play 8-player Daytona USA, or Daytona 2, Scud Race even Crazy Taxi! But they have driving games like Double Axle, Spy Hunter, Hydro Thunder and San Francisco Rush.

So I do agree with you that it is possible for an arcade to be successful in 2024 with the right kind of machines. I still really don't think an arcade can be successful if it has nothing but old arcade games from the 80s and 90s. I just don't see stuff like Frogger,Pac-Man,Q-bert,Galaga,Space Invaders and Mappy bringing in much repeat business.

Maybe I'm wrong and it will be very successful. I'm not trying to be a hater about it I just honestly don't see how it will get much repeat business with the games they have to offer.

One more thing I forgot to add the prices for this arcade are $12 for the day or $20 for a month pass. $20 for a month pass is a great deal for the customer but seems terrible business wise. I would imagine anyone who plans on coming back a second time will spend the extra $8 and get an entire month. After that month how many are going to buy another monthly pass? I'd say after you are able to go anytime you want for an entire month you'll have your fill of NFL Blitz 2000, Spy Hunter and Crystal Castles.

So before I thought it wouldn't be successful due to the lackluster line-up of games. But after seeing the $20 for a month pass I don't see how it can possibly make a profit. You said the arcade in Indianapolis charges $15 per person for the day and has been there for 10 years. If they instead of charging $15 for a day charged $23 for a month I wonder if they would still be around. I'm no business expert but $20 for an entire month seems like a terrible idea from a business perspective.

If I'm wrong about this feel free to let me know. This is all just my opinion and I'd enjoy hearing other opinions.

[melancholy]

So I do agree with you that it is possible for an arcade to be successful in 2024 with the right kind of machines. I still really don't think an arcade can be successful if it has nothing but old arcade games from the 80s and 90s. I just don't see stuff like Frogger,Pac-Man,Q-bert,Galaga,Space Invaders and Mappy bringing in much repeat business.

So the arcade I mentioned has a retro alley like that, with your traditional Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, Centipede…games like that. I have never played a single game in that section, but I always see people in there because of one particular demographic: females that came with their boyfriends/husbands/guy friends. Bored women gravitate towards the retro alley to play these simple games. There’s no way you could build a business model off of that, though, you need a good mix of all generations.

So before I thought it wouldn't be successful due to the lackluster line-up of games. But after seeing the $20 for a month pass I don't see how it can possibly make a profit. You said the arcade in Indianapolis charges $15 per person for the day and has been there for 10 years. If they instead of charging $15 for a day charged $23 for a month I wonder if they would still be around. I'm no business expert but $20 for an entire month seems like a terrible idea from a business perspective.

I’m going to derail the topic for a moment and talk about another industry that does this very thing and makes no sense to me: car wash companies. Attached to our Meijer parking lot is an automatic car wash station with a slogan that when you pay for the first car wash, all the rest of them for the month are free. And that sounds like insanity to me. For $16 you can either get one car wash, or unlimited car washes. I simply cannot understand how that doesn’t lose them massive amounts of money. Crew car wash is similar, with a $30 monthly program for unlimited washes, but is actually staffed by an entire crew of people. That has to cost so much money, how do they get away with only charging $30?

Of course there are other industries that do it too, like Planet Fitness with its $15 gym passes. But that simply provides you access to gym equipment and not a bunch of costly consumables like hundreds of gallons of water and soap.

Plus gym passes are cheap because they hope that a bunch of people sign up and never come, but keep their membership because they swear they are going to use it. And maybe that’s what the car wash companies and this retro arcade are banking on too. But I still find it strange and non-logical.